Ep 74: The Role of a School Resource Officer
Episode 74
Published Apr 1, 2024
Last updated Feb 18, 2026
Duration: 44:03
Episode Summary
Unfortunately, school shootings aren’t rare anymore. Today we look at the role of a School Resource Officer (SRO). Their primary mission – to interact and intercede in the event of a direct threat or forceable felony.
Episode Notes
The mission of an SRO is direct threat intervention. Today we speak with Billy Perry and his approach to training and preparation for officers, administration, teachers, parents, and most importantly, STUDENTS. When this type of event occurs a controlled, disciplined, and methodical response can be achieved without causing additional trauma – if you train for it in advance.
View this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/u26XHGhkJiE
Transcript
Bill Godfrey:In an earlier podcast, we talked to a 16-year-old high school student about school safety and we learned some interesting things. Today we're gonna talk with one of our instructors who serves as a school resource officer and has for three years about what it's like realistically for schools day in, day out. Stick around.
Welcome to the Active Shooter Incident Management Podcast. My name is Bill Godfrey your podcast host, I am joined by Adam Pendley on the law enforcement side. Adam, good to have you back.
Adam Pendley:
Thank you, Bill.
Bill Godfrey:
And our special guest star back in the house, Billy Perry.
Billy. It's good to have you back.
Billy Perry:
Glad to be back with you.
Bill Godfrey:
It has been a minute.
Billy Perry:
It has been.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah you've been busy, been busy.
Billy Perry:
I have.
Bill Godfrey:
So Billy is one of our long serving instructors as Adam and I are. And after he retired, spent career doing patrol, bomb, SWAT guys. All in with the Hut Hut Boys. Retired and decided.
Billy Perry:
Right, retired was still a trainer with the sheriff's office. And then got approached by a large private school in Jacksonville, Florida, and here we are.
Bill Godfrey:
Here you are. So you're essentially serving as a school resource officer at a large private school. And you've got K through 12 on campus?
Billy Perry:
K through 12 for about 1,400 students. 64 acre campus.
Adam Pendley:
Mm.
Bill Godfrey:
And what I'm excited to talk to you about today is kind of what your experience has been over the last three years, what you've seen, where you think gaps are, all of those kinds of things. And I realize that this is in the perspective of the school you work at. But I know you also have this perspective from the kids and the other schools. So I guess my first question is, what made you decide that you wanted to do this post-retirement?
Billy Perry:
Truthfully, it was not something that I'd ever set out really thought that I would do or would be doing. They asked me to look at some plans and things. Their longstanding security guard died of COVID. They were looking for a replacement, made me an offer. And I'm like, you know what? Sounds amazing. And it has been an eye-opening learning experience.
Adam Pendley:
Well, I can tell you in all of my years in patrol also in Jacksonville, sometimes when you go into the schools, they were a little overwhelming. 'Cause the kids can be a little wild. Did you have any like first impressions when you first started the job?
Billy Perry:
You know, not really. One of the things. Yes, just because of their activity. Because you have littles and you have bigs and you have middles. And so you just have that whole, everything from hormones to, you know, just their normal metabolism running amuck. But really one of the things that I've been really blessed with and where I am is having a clear delineation of our role. I'm not a disciplinarian. I don't write referrals. I don't even enforce rules. Like if the football team walks through the cleats, I'm like, how was practice guys? I mean, you know, I'm here for violent felons and for, you know, lawful and violent interdiction if needed.
Adam Pendley:
Yeah, that actually sounds a little different than what some school resource officers who are still employed by a public agency. Are often faced with, they're often leaned upon to do disciplinary type things as opposed to just doing law enforcement and safety. So that's interesting. I didn't realize that was a difference.
Billy Perry:
It is, and I'll tell you, I'm really thankful and I'm blessed I have the administration and the board that I work for, because they were able to very insightful. 'Cause they're much more intelligent than I am, so much more intelligent. They recognize me for what I am. And I recognize them for what they are. And you know, I broke it down and I said, if you look there's 50 people that have keys to all these doors, there's at least nine or 10 people that have access to all these cameras and everything else. My team are the only ones that wear firearms that can violently interact and intercede in the event of a forcible felony. And so we've kept a clear delineation of what our job and our roles are.
Bill Godfrey:
Your relationship with the kids. I want to kind of explore that. But it was interesting that you started off by saying, you know, you don't enforce policies or rules are not the disciplinarian. Do you think that that has played a role in your relationship with the kids positively or negatively? And talk a little bit about what those relationships are like from the littles to the middles to the bigs.
Billy Perry:
Actually absolutely. Yes on all, and I'll tell you, it's funny. My wife came up and spent about three hours at the school a couple weeks ago for different reasons and was shocked at the interaction that we have with the kids. 'Cause I mean, we are in the middle of it all day. And I get 40, 50 hugs. I mean, I get, you know, we talk, we high five, everything. I mean, we interact literally from kindergarten through high school seniors. And so we have huge 6'5 high school seniors and we have little bitty, you know, barely 5-year-old kindergartners.
Bill Godfrey:
How do you adjust, if at all, how do you adjust your self presentation for the little kids versus how you might do it for the high school kids?
Billy Perry:
Truthfully, I don't, I'm a one trick pony. What you see is what you get. You get Billy 24/7, 365. Some days it's good. Some days it's a challenge. But seriously, so, you know, there's the same, one of the things that I learned through training and one of the things that I learned through being here, even the 6'5 17-year-old, he's still a child. And we lose sight of that. And you can call them a young adult, you can call them whatever. They're still a child, and when things go sideways, they still come to you looking for you to fix it.
Adam Pendley:
Hmm.
Bill Godfrey:
And well along those lines, what are the kinds of things that the kids talk to you about?
Billy Perry:
Well, generally we've never had an issue with something about violence. They know where we are. We're an open, my staff, because I have five guards, five Florida G licensed security guards that work for me. And then I have a cadre of JSO officers that I've handpicked that work for us as well. 'Cause there are a lot of things that I'm close-minded about and I can afford to be, I'm right. And this is one of them. Two is one, one is none. And so I'm from the Department of Redundancy Department.
So we have me, we have another armed guard with me. And then we have a full-time JSO guy. And we have him for legis, for he does traffic. He or she does traffic in the morning, in the afternoon. 'Cause we have to, it's a ballet trying to get the kids in and out. 'Cause it's a strong academic school, strong. And so every minute of class time is important. And, you know, so we do that.
But we carry, we have open carry. I carry a Staccato PDPO, I have a Glock 17 MOS also. But I carry a Staccato PDPO with a Delta point Pro. And then I have a custom rifle that Gabe Rose built and gave my rifles a moozing. And, you know, and you know, we all carry optics. Everybody has optics on their platforms and you know, we're very serious about it.
And so it's seeing the kids see it, it's not a big deal. In fact, it's not a deal. And, you know, we interact just normally it's been eye opening to see what kids are afraid of, and what kids are not afraid of.
Adam Pendley:
So I mean, I think a lot of people who listen to that, especially, you know, things vary around other areas of the country. And I don't know if you can tell the full story in this, but I remember you telling a story one time about some people visiting your school from another area of the country and talking about, you know, that you carry guns and some different things.
Billy Perry:
Right, and it is funny, they did, we have a really nice school. And we have an amazing football field. And visiting NFL teams that are coming to play the Jaguars, will practice there, and so we had a group. Their forward security department did, and they came and were looking and they said, we gotta tell you, you're blowing our minds because you're not social distancing. You know, you're carrying a gun around all the kids. Nobody cares. And it was funny. And they even said, you're killing a dinosaur right on the other side of the playground because we had alligator trappers trapping an alligator. And I'm like, welcome to Florida. And you know, Florida man's real, keeping it real. But yeah.
You know, I think one the things, one of my big takeaways is that I didn't even know, 'cause I didn't spend time in schools. Kids are not afraid of guns. Spoiler alert. They're not. It's a projection from adults. And if they are demonstrating it, which we have never had happen, if they are demonstrating it, they're trying to do what they think their parents or their adult leaders want to do because it's not scary.
Adam Pendley:
Right and I mean, I know you, I've known you for years. But just listening to you describe your weapon platform, I mean I think one of the things is that you take guns seriously. For what they're intended for, it's nothing's cavalier. They're not play toys or anything you know, so I think you probably portray that with the kids as well so.
Billy Perry:
100%.
Adam Pendley:
And I think that's important.
Billy Perry:
And you know, and I treat it as my craft. I really do. And I accept that, you know, as a huge responsibility. And I shoot actually, and I train really hard. I train as hard now, ad it's funny, I had the SWAT team out 'cause I interact with them. I had the SWAT team out and they were training in our school and they were laughing at my loadout. That my loadout now, as a security guard at a school is better than when I initially was on SWAT. I mean, 'cause I do, I carry a Staccato PDPO. I have two 20 rounds Staccato mags. I carry a backup AR mag for my rifle. You know, and I even have a knife for other reasons. And you know, I take it very seriously.
And again the reason I have a backup mag, I don't think we're gonna get in a protracted gun battle with, you know, rogue members of Seal Team Six. I just think that, you know, if I'm gonna probably take fire and what gets shot a lot of times is the magazine and the rifle. And I need to be able to, you know, do that. 'Cause again, redundancy, you know, I'm from the Department of Redundancy Department, two is one, one is none. So.
Adam Pendley:
Well, if you were having a conversation with one of your officers that was coming on board, what would you tell them? Why is that level of preparation important in the school environment?
Billy Perry:
Because that is what delineates and separates us from everyone else. We are the only ones with this mission that we're it, we're it. And you know what, nobody thought it was gonna happen at any school that it happened at. It's happened at teeny tiny little schools that are subsets of nothing. It's happened to great big schools that are huge and affluent. Nobody thought it was gonna happen there. It's happened in big cities. It's happened in teeny tiny towns. And I think that's something that it, you know, that I tell them and I stress our primary mission is that direct threat intervention. We are going to intercede with violence. The end.
Bill Godfrey:
And on that line, I'm gonna quote you to you. We don't shoot to kill.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
We don't shoot to injure. We don't shoot to warn, we shoot to stop the behavior.
Billy Perry:
And to stop our bullet. Correct. We shoot with a 100% with that in mind. We have two goals in mind for you to doing whatever it was you're doing for doing wrong in a do right zone. You need to quit that. We're gonna shoot you and we're gonna shoot you hard. And we want it to attenuate and arrest our bullet. We wanna stop our bullet because friendly fire isn't. And that's one of the reasons we are so fastidious in the rounds that we choose and what we carry and the platforms that we carry.
And we did a platform on long guns, on patrol rifles. And that's why we carry that. And I have all the distances in my school, all the hallways. I have it on a picture by my desk for all my officers, where every range has been lasered. So we know how far they are.
And that's, truthfully, I'm not a crazy gun guy. I do carry a Staccato PDPO because of its accuracy because I'm shooting in a... Every shooting that I'm gonna have is probably gonna be a hostage rescue. And I'm surrounded by innocence, you know?
Adam Pendley:
Right, it's funny that you say that, a lot of times when people come up to you and they ask you about your law enforcement career, they always wanna know who you've shot or how many times. I know I haven't, I was fortunate I was never placed in that position. I don't even like guns, but I take guns seriously. And trained hard and became a firearms instructor during a portion of my career for that.
Billy Perry:
With me.
Adam Pendley:
Yes. With you. For that very reason is that, you know, that's the only thing that's gonna address that first priority which is dealing with the active threat. It's one of the only things that's going to ultimately stop that active threat.
Billy Perry:
Correct.
Bill Godfrey:
And I'm gonna shift us to a little bit different gear here. So I wanna walk through with you, because this was one of the things that when we spoke with Ryan, the 16-year-old high school student that really caught my attention is the message and the training of, you know, run, hide, fight or locks, lights outta sight, you know, get on a lockdown, get the door locked, turn off the lights, get outta sight. That had really penetrated and he knew that and that was great. But what was really kind of, I don't know if stunning is the right word, but caught my attention is he said almost verbatim. Really. That's it. That's all we're gonna do? There's nothing else past that.
So I'm curious, you get a threat, you put the campus into lockdown, your teachers run through their version of lockdown, locks, lights, outta sight. What if anything are the conversations that you've had with kids about the things that they can do past that point? Or if the threat is in the room with them, or if they have injured in the room with them or any of those kinds of things. Can you talk a little bit about how you see that playing out in your situation?
Billy Perry:
We have not, truthfully, had that conversation, because we're still, even at three years, I feel like we're still sort of in an infancy and they have really developed a tremendous amount of respect, for lack of a better word, or expectation from my team and what we're gonna do. And we tell them we need 90 seconds. Now the problem is 90 seconds is a long, long time. And I do a demonstration when I'm teaching a class of somebody else, start a timer and I'll go boom, boom, boom, boom for 90 seconds. You can do a lot of damage in 90 seconds.
But we haven't talked about if somebody comes in there, you know what to do, anything like that. Because so many schools have actually done things correctly. But you know, we have told them that we're gonna go it in, we're gonna fix it, we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it as quickly as we can. And then that's when the waiting game is gonna start. And you're gonna be here for another 12 to 16 hours after that minimally. And for the reunification process. And you know we talk about that because that's one of the things also that in aftermath, people weren't prepared for.
And so, you know, I don't wanna get into a fake defensive tactics class 'Cause you know, I'm a martial artist and you know, and I fought last night, you know, I fight, you know, a lot. But, you know, I can't just give them a quick punch them here, hit them there, gouge them here. I mean, you know, it's really not effective. If that makes sense.
So we do have stop the bleed kits in every classroom. Every classroom has them and they all have bags of stop the bleed kits and tourniquets and real tourniquets. And so, you know, the teachers know how to do that. But we haven't talked to the students about it.
Bill Godfrey:
It's interesting, the conversation I was having with Ryan talking about that, I realized that in terms of our response as public safety coming in an event. That we've left ourselves with a black hole of intelligence about what's going on, that we never took the opportunity to train the teachers and the students that if you are in a room, first of all these things, the act of killing is over, 10 minutes or less 90% of the time from the first bang, if you're in the room and you've got injured text 911, where you are, how many injured you have. And the description of what's going on. And things like that, if you're in a room and there's nobody injured, have somebody designated to text and say, right, 911, we are in this room at the school, no one in our room is injured. There's no threat here.
That is at first when it hits the dispatch center gonna be overwhelming, we know that. But once we deal with the threat, and we start to get into the rescue operation, there's an opportunity for the dispatchers to begin to go through that and say, okay, let's prioritize the ones that we've got where we have, you know, known injuries. And begin to push that information out. But we've never even told anybody that that's helpful. And things that we could do.
The other stuff I talked with Ryan about was just what's available. He was using the example. They had told him to throw books if the bad guy comes into the room, throw books. He's like, he said, oh, okay. Really?
Billy Perry:
Some of these schools, they don't even have books.
Bill Godfrey:
There's two books. Yeah. He said, you know, I'm gonna throw my laptop? And then we kind of talked about some of the things that you could, and it was just sitting over the table. It wasn't like trying to put them through procedures, but just saying, oh, you know, you got a big old 10 pound fire extinguisher that's encased in steel right there on the wall. That could be become a good weapon. So I feel like we've done a good job of pushing out what a lockdown is. Locks, lights, outta sight. We've done a non-existent job of talking about what needs to happen after that.
Billy Perry:
You know, I think we've done an okay job in the locks, lights and outta sight and all that. 'Cause we still have everybody, me, everybody has pushback. We do monthly fire drills. You're a firefighter, you're a fire chief. When was the last school fire?
Bill Godfrey:
That killed anybody or injured anybody? It's been a while
Billy Perry:
70 Years.
Bill Godfrey:
Been a long time.
Billy Perry:
Since the '50's, right?
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah. Yes.
Billy Perry:
I'm being accurate. And how when was the last time we had active shooters in a school? Right. Exactly.
So I mean, which is more real, you know. 'Cause I always say in the training that I have, and we train once a month, every other month on the outside. We're training again Friday. You know, we train for the probabilities, not the possibilities. We train for what's probably gonna happen. Not the Romulans landing. You know, so.
Bill Godfrey:
Nice Star Trek reference.
Billy Perry:
You're welcome, more than just a pretty face.
And you know, so, you know we want to be prepared, you know, for what's probably gonna happen. And you know, so everybody's reluctant and a little bit recalcitrant in doing the lockdown drills and we don't wanna be obsessed with it.
Bill Godfrey:
Right.
Billy Perry:
And you know, but we're obsessed with fire in a concrete building, that can't burn. That has sprinklers and everything. I mean, come on.
And you know, and which is a more real threat and especially, you know, a school like ours, which is a target on multiple fronts 'cause it's faith based and everything else. So, I mean, but again, I can't, you know, I'm very thankful and blessed for, you know, what we do. 'Cause I think we do the majority of it well
Adam Pendley:
And not unlike like fire drills, I think we've all learned from experience. I mean, not that we've ever done it, but we've learned from the experience of others that you would never do an unannounced active shooter drill.
Billy Perry:
Ever.
Adam Pendley:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
That ends badly.
Billy Perry:
Ever.
Adam Pendley:
But I also know that I've heard of pushback because, well it's traumatizing to the kids. And it's probably similar to the understanding that they're not afraid of guns. How are they when they participate in the training?
Billy Perry:
That's awesome. Thank you. I'll tell you what's funny. One of the things that we do, and I don't know if anybody else is doing it. And if you are, shoot me an email. I'd love to know. 'Cause I'm open, I always wanna learn, I utilize children as role players in our training. Ah, what? Yeah, I do. And you know what? They love it. They have a blast.
And I'll tell you what's funny, hilarious, talk about flying in the face of stereotypes. The two biggest supporters initially for my program, because I inadvertently used their room and included them were the art teacher and the music teacher, the raging liberal left flower everything, loved us. They're like, oh my goodness, y'all are amazing. Like, I can't believe how common, I'm like yeah, deceptively professional, deceptively competent. And that's been become my new motto. Deceptively competent. You know.
And when they actually see what we do, and it's not a bunch of, you know, rouge, ah, screaming, hollering, very controlled, very orderly, disciplined, methodical but rapid. And they're like, oh my goodness, I actually understand this now. And you know, having them on board and it's not traumatic to the kids truthfully. And, you know, back to the equipment. I took a class 'cause I've taken a bunch. Go ahead.
Bill Godfrey:
But before you do that Billy, I'm gonna ask you to jump back and kind of describe what one of your drills looks like from the perspective of the kids. 'Cause I don't wanna leave people with the perception that you're using live blank guns and making a lot. Describe what that looks like
Billy Perry:
Absolutely not, in fact generally what we have, 'cause we're in a crawl, walk, run phase of our growth. And we have a yellow gun. Generally the bad guy has a yellow gun, which is a martial arts training aid. And we have cleared weapons. We run with our own weapons because, you know, the four firearm safety rules, it's not treat all guns as if they're loaded anymore. It's know the condition of your weapon. And we go through a three step clearing procedure, everything's secured. And we actually train with our own weapons so we know what we're doing.
There is no ammo anywhere around. We had the kids in a classroom. We have multiple scenarios. Last time we had several kids and we had a teacher who was the suspect and had the yellow gun. And we're all stationed in a room down the hall. And we give them the scenarios. They're shooting in Mr. Chamber's room and they move and they go that way. And we'll give them the teacher's name. 'Cause that's what you're gonna get. That's what the children are gonna say. They're not gonna give you a room number. They're gonna tell you where they are and you know, and that kind of thing.
And then they roll the door and then they make entry. And if it's a corner fed room, they run the rabbit and they engage. And if it's a center fed room, they, you know, take a strong wall and engage the target. And it's calm, it's methodical and it's just, there's not a lot of talking. It's just move in, boom boom. And they say, boom, boom.
Bill Godfrey:
I was gonna say they're doing pew pew or boom boom.
Billy Perry:
Pew pewping. We're big pew pew. Our pew pews are deadly.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah.
Billy Perry:
Yeah, but no we have had the swat team train on our premises and they used simunitions and it was flawless. And they cleared into rooms where kids were and honestly they fought over the simunition the brass for the simunitions. And they loved it. I mean I'm telling you, kids are not afraid of this stuff.
Adam Pendley:
So to extend on earlier though, I mean obviously parents are informed. Is there like a release involved or?
Billy Perry:
There is, the initial groups that we had were, well my stepsons came and did it initially and loved it. And then we had teacher's kids that would come and we give them community service hours for doing it. And honestly they learn and they're like, oh my goodness. I mean, it's an eye opener for everybody.
Adam Pendley:
Yeah, so I mean, I think that's really important especially from the student's perspective, is that unfortunately we can't say it's rare anymore right?
Billy Perry:
Right.
Adam Pendley:
So it shouldn't be a shock to them if something unfolds right?
Billy Perry:
Correct.
Adam Pendley:
And then the more reps that they've had at understanding what they need to do and that law enforcement's coming and what's gonna happen. I think it just makes it safer for everyone. 'Cause I remember the conversation you had with Ryan and about, you know, just, he was kind of at a loss. It was what they trained on in a plan, but didn't really see beyond that. And I think what you're illustrating is what you can show them beyond what the plan says.
Billy Perry:
Right.
Bill Godfrey:
So what's next for you at the school? You mentioned the crawl, walk, run. Where are the steps that you think you've got?
Billy Perry:
We want to get up to simunitions. We want to get up to that, to actually doing that. We want to be more proficient in movement because it's a perishable skill truthfully. And I'll tell you, and I put this out and I have a bunch of JSO officers that come to every training. A bunch of patrol officers. I have some detectives. I have other churches, other faith-based agencies that come with us. But I'm gonna tell you, one of the things I've learned is like other schools don't have what we have at our school. And I'll reach out to the officer and I know him. And I'll say, would you like to come to training? I don't need that. I know it.
And one of the things that I've learned in my three years absence is, you know how you kill a police officer? You have them climb to the top of their ego and jump off. And I'll tell you, I'm like they say, you know, I'll come and teach it. I'm like, I've known you for 30 years, a million year old career. I mean, I don't say that, but I'm thinking, you know, this is a perishable skill and I'm bringing my people up and we train once a month.
You know, the reason the SWAT team trains a minimum once a week is it is so perishable and it does degrade. And I think, you know, we have to you know, realize what we want to do and where we actually are. And have realistic expectations and assessments of ourselves. I'm blessed where.
Bill Godfrey:
And administration that support it. Both with policy, behavior and money.
Billy Perry:
A 100%, a 100%. And we do honest debriefs. And in fact, one of the things that we started last time is we have our videographer record it and we go back and we do it. And we're putting together, and I'll be happy to share this with anybody we're putting together, he's editing out a presentation that we can give during a professional development day and bring all the a 100 faculty members up to speed on what we're doing and everything else.
And because education is the key truthfully. And you know, we're blessed. Adam and I come from an agency where we did open and honest debriefs. If every debrief you're high fiving talking about how amazing you are, you're not doing an honest debrief. And, you know, and we take it apart. We take apart the recordings and we learn from it, every run we learn from. So our goal is to be as proficient as we can be at this all the while implementing the best platforms that we can.
Because again, like I said, I can't stress ammunition enough. You know, we talked about it in the Long Gun podcast. And that has, you know, people that, you know, like for so many agencies use subcompact pistols that are hidden. You're taking a hostage rescue shot around children. You need the most effective platform you can get with competency, so.
Adam Pendley:
So I'm gonna extend on something that you've said. You know, 'cause it seems like you've had the opportunity to do a lot of training from an operator standpoint, from you and your guard force and other officers that may work the area. And you had a lot of support and a lot of participation from students and teachers and whatnot. I have seen unfortunately that sometimes as people make their way up through their ranks, first line supervisors typically stay somewhat engaged. But then those that might come and be in command, let's say a lieutenant or some sort of commander of an area, they tend to check out from training often, but yet they're the ones that are expected to be in charge when they get there.
What would you like to see more of as far as leadership coming and participating in some of the training?
Billy Perry:
Well, you know, I would love to see that truthfully. We do have lieutenants that show up and you know, one of the things that we know as working in a training company and being professional trainers, all trainings not good training. And I think, you know, having them involved and understanding and seeing and you know, like for our training and, you know, it meets the same criteria that we all meet. Is it traceable, repeatable, and vetted? You know? 'Cause that's how we adopt it. We don't just go like, Billy and Adam came up with this and we could, 'cause you know, you know.
Bill Godfrey:
You guys are a little creative.
Billy Perry:
We're a little creative, but you know, we didn't just come up with it and let's fly, let's try this. You know, so we actually implement, you know, realistic good best practice stuff.
And we were just talking, does training evolve? Yes, if it didn't, we'd still be shoving, you know, lead balls down the muzzles of rifles and getting in line screaming first volley, I mean, thank goodness it's evolved and it's going to, but right now what we're doing is the best. But I would love to see commanders and we do have some watch commanders that do show up actually.
Adam Pendley:
I mean how would you recommend, if you were, you know, again, we're talking a lot about a specific jurisdiction, but if you extend it to all places from a fire perspective, what value do you have in being invited to that type of training?
Bill Godfrey:
I think it's important, number one, to be aware of the procedures. I think one of the most eye-opening things is if you have a community where your fire EMS agency isn't fully engaged in the rescue task force model yet, or they've trained it in absence of doing it with their law enforcement. I think that there's gaps, we think we know, but we don't actually know. And so being able to observe that training that you're doing, I think is important.
But I would also say that I think it's a perfect opportunity to also do the follow on piece. That it's not just the room entry and the take down, but the RTF follow on. The idea that you might have an officer down drill as a component of it. I think those things are insanely valuable.
The opportunity to potentially chat, even if it's just casual interaction with teachers and students to a degree as well. Like my experience with Ryan, you know, they sometimes come outta left field and ask you questions that are on their mind that they've never had an opportunity to ask. And a teacher might have a stop the bleed kit, but may not be a 100% confident about what they're doing or when to do it. And now suddenly there's a paramedic standing in their room, hey, I had a question about this.So I think all of that is a great opportunity to understand what the procedures are.
You mentioned at some point you were talking about the keys and who has access. Access is a huge thing. There's a lot of schools that do knock box setups for the fire department to be able to get in and get keys. There's a couple gaps with that. Number one is not all schools have them.. Number two, not all schools are very good about keeping them updated and locks get broken, locks changed. You know, at some point there was a master key that opened all the locks on the campus. That may have been the day the campus was new. Two months later. There's more than one key. And so I think the opportunity to have everybody together as part of that to observe it, to walk through it, is a valuable training opportunity.
Adam Pendley:
Right.
Billy Perry:
That's one of the biggest takeaways that we had frankly. Was we had, I used my night and weekend guy who were the most familiar with the keys of anybody that we had. I mean, that were the, you know, the night watchmen, you know, once the kids were gone, they used keys and they were incredibly intimately familiar with these keys. And when we started doing reps, they could not get a door open to save their lives.
Bill Godfrey:
Really?
Billy Perry:
Could not, could not find them. And I knew that was gonna happen and I just let it play out. And so we have streamlined it down and they have tags on them now. We carry an admin key, which gets us into every admin office. And we have a classroom key and it says classroom and admin. And even then you're like all fists and thumbs trying to open it up. But it's so much better. Just little things that we've learned through hundreds of reps.
Adam Pendley:
Right. Absolutely. And I just to emphasize on that, one, there has to be a commitment to the training.
Billy Perry:
A 100%.
Adam Pendley:
And then there has to be willing to keep your eyes open for new opportunities. Things that come up during the trainings and follow on and make sure that, 'cause there's nothing worse than watching an exercise or you talk about it even if you talk honestly about it, if there's no improvement afterwards.
Billy Perry:
Correct, a 100% agree. And we have got to explain it. We gotta get it out to parents and honestly it's just like rifles, you know who's fault that is? It's us, it's ours in law enforcement. We have not done a good enough job explaining why, like on the podcast, we have not done a good enough job explaining, you know, dispelling myths because we allow an basic urban legend is gonna traumatize the kids. It doesn't, it truly doesn't. If it's done correctly and professionally and organized. I mean it really doesn't. It's just like wearing a gun doesn't, and you know, like you were talking about, Everybody has a level 3 holster. You know, we don't have just codex holsters. We have secure, our stuff is really secure and it has to be 'cause we move around kids and you know what little ones do touch it. They do. And you know what, that's okay.
I mean, 'cause you know, went through training years ago and we had to play soccer in our gear one day at the start of a tactical school. And we did. And I'm like, this is pseudo crazy. And then at the end of the first little minute they stopped and they said, now every piece of gear you lost didn't mean anything to you or is improperly secured. Fix it or leave it. And I'm like, I went to school on this one and so you got me and so everything is really secure and the little kids can touch it, you know, and they, and they can say, what's this? And I go it's a magazine. It's full of bullets. And I show them, we're honest with them, you know, we're not pulling it out and twirling it going look at that, you know, but, you know, they can see it. and they do, they walk by and they'll touch the magazines. And I mean
Bill Godfrey:
Here's the other flip side of that is because people talk about the traumatizing the kids. And there have been some unfortunate events Where kids were traumatized by a SWAT team or a a contact team doing a hard dynamic entry as they were going through the clearing phase of an actual event. Regrettable, you know, et cetera. But here's a question for you. If the kids have been trained and they already know what that looks like and what that sounds like and they have some idea of what's gonna happen and that it's coming, are they still gonna get traumatized day of? If there is a day of?
Billy Perry:
I don't think so. And I think, you know, that can lie at the feet of everybody. And I think, you know, you don't have to be outta control when you're even doing a clearing. You don't have to be profane even when you're doing a clearing. You don't have to be a wild lunatic even when you're doing a clearing and you know, I think that's.
Bill Godfrey:
You can get a key and not kick the door in.
Billy Perry:
Crazy talk. Right. You know what I mean? You know, 'cause you know, remember specially in Florida, you know, class doors open out. And so, I mean, you know, it, you know, it is what it is and you know but, school security has become like an industry.
Adam Pendley:
Well it's funny when, when you were talking about getting them used to seeing things, we take little kids on tours of fire stations where they look at hoses and axes that are gonna put out fires that burn people and equipment that tears open cars to get people that are trapped out.
Bill Godfrey:
We put them in little fire helmets and let them hold the hose.
Adam Pendley:
But yet when it comes to the professional tools that law enforcement uses, sometimes we wanna steer away from that. And I don't know that that's necessarily, I don't think a logical conclusion.
Billy Perry:
I don't think it's good.
Billy Perry:
Well, we might be strained a little bit into the psychological area there, but. So Billy, as we wrap this up, let me ask you this. So for an SRO that is at a school that has some challenges, what advice would you give them about trying to get administration leadership and I mean the school leadership, the principal, the vice principal, the teachers, what advice would you give them about how to, kind of win them over and get them to open up?
Billy Perry:
Well it's a paradigm. And it requires a paradigm shift. And I think you have to realize that you are different than everybody else. You're not just the key holder, you're not the access to the camera guy. You know, you are actually the only one that can directly intercede to a violent threat. What is the percentage now of active shooters that require forceful intervention?
Bill Godfrey:
If the shooting is still ongoing, when the first law enforcement officer arrives, 80% of the time it takes interaction by that officer.
Billy Perry:
That's a lot. 80%'s a lot. And so, I mean, and I think, you know, we have to be able to explain that. And again, you know, I get inundated every day with calls about we've got the best security issue here and we can do this and the other and hmm. And I ask, what's your, you know, what's your, you know, what's your background? Where are you getting this from? And do I really care about.
Bill Godfrey:
That's probably a great topic for a podcast on its own.
Billy Perry:
It is. So you wanna save that one?
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah.
Billy Perry:
okay.
Bill Godfrey:
let's put that another one, because Karla gave me the 30 minute sign about 10 minutes ago.
Billy Perry:
Okay, but I think letting them know that you're committed to your craft, that you're committed to what you're doing, that you're committed to saving lives, you're committed to ending this as rapidly as possible. And be honest, be forthright, be judicious, and explain what you're trying to do and what separates you from everybody else.
Bill Godfrey:
That's fantastic. Any other final thoughts?
Billy Perry:
Nope, you know, it's easy to do, the concept is easy, it's the application that's hard. It's like losing weight. All you gotta do is eat less and burn more. It's the application that's hard. And I think the same thing is this too. 'Cause it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of pain and it takes a lot of hours.
Adam Pendley:
That's all I was gonna say to wrap it up, is that it's repetition. You know, this is not a one and done sort of thing, And you've gotta look at it multiple angles, multiple times.
Bill Godfrey:
And I think my parting on this would be, as a parent I understand very well the feelings of the idea of a threat, an active threat, violent event occurring in a school where your child is. And whether child will be safe, whether other kids are gonna get injured and how that would come out.
But I don't think being afraid of it is a reason not to prepare and train for it. And I realize it's a very delicate topic to be talking about in today's day and age. But I harken back to a time when I was young and they had these drills in school. And to be fair, these were on their way out as I was coming through school. 'Cause I can barely remember them. But they had these drills in school called duck and cover.
Billy Perry:
The nuclear drills.
Bill Godfrey:
I'm pretty sure a nuclear bomb will kill a whole lot more people than an active shooter will. And yet we said, okay, we need to have a plan. We need to train on the plan and we need to teach kids. And the idea of that, yes, it's scary, but if you can give kids a plan. If you have a plan, then you're a lot less afraid
Billy Perry:
If you just let them know what's gonna happen. If you let them know we're gonna move in and we're gonna engage them we're gonna make them stop doing what they were doing, we're gonna get in there and we're gonna engage them and then we're gonna go through the other. If you let them know this is what's gonna happen. And like I said though, the kids that are participating in the training, they tell their friends this is what they do. And winning the minds of the parents as well. Engaging with the parents and let them see you're not a loose cannon on the deck of a rolling ship. You're actually a competent, deceptively competent professional.
Bill Godfrey:
Yeah, you're not some SEAL team six warrior that's looking for somebody to go kill. It's not that at all. It's simply about keeping the kids safe.
Billy, thanks for coming in. Adam it's good to have you back.
I wanna say thank you to Karla Torres, our producer behind the scenes, who makes this all look so easy. If you have not liked and subscribed to the podcast, please do so. But more importantly, please share this with the people that you work with, with other responders, and in this case, school resource officers, school administrators. And if there's anything we can ever do to help, certainly let us know.
If you have suggestions for future podcasts, shoot us an email at info@c3pathways.com. That's info, I N F O @c3pathways.com. And until next time, stay safe.